verystormy Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 It will be policed I guess the same as it is in other states. Don't forget. This is new to WA but not to Oz. It has been the norm in a number of states for a long time. Also at significantly higher levels. Yes, a lot of PR holders go home. But, that is their choice - Oz give up being a penal colony some time ago. A 457 holder HAS to go home. A lot of Brit 457 holders seem to forget the nature of the visa they are on. The Canadians I have worked with are much more in tune with the fact it is a temp visa because they don't get access to healthcare. I think overall Oz treats it's temp residents very well. In many countries, you would have to pay full private education, full healthcare and many other things. No, there are no positive tax effects. The reality is, the real demand for 457 is going to be falling dramatically. I also suspect that there will a lot more tightening of the rules to come - most people don't seem to have grasped how negative the recent changes were. A lot seem to see the change from 28 days to 90 days without seeing the fact a lot of jobs now need to establish they have been trying to fill the role with a local for 120 days. Back on to the original post.... Barney 'with his flintstone ideas' Rubble has done it again. Knee jerk cash grab! He will probably at some point back track, because he is a numpty! But anyway, back to the topic, I would love to know:- a) How will they police this once it is up and running, ie, will it be left to schools to try to ask for the money, or will they take it from 457s when they land at Perth airport???? Not an airport tax but a schoolgate tax maybe?? b) It seems unfair to penalise 457 applicants when it was quite ok for the government to rush visas through when the boom was happening and they didnt have enough well trained people here to fill the jobs that were being offered. Now lets just 'throw the 457 people to the lions' we dont need them anymore type of attitude! Maybe they think that if people dont like it from places like the UK then they will just get people on 457 visas from other countries to come and fill the spaces. c) Why should 457 visa holders have to pay for a place at a state school, when some and lets face it there are lots, decide to go home after a short time on PR visas, so therefore they have used the state system to their advantage and then not needed it anymore. d) Does this extra cash mean they will build more schools for the 457 visa holders kiddies to go to??? I think I know the answer to that. e) Will there be some tax implications that will benefit the 457 visa holders if they pay for their childrens education. I know that isnt the case with paying for private education, but maybe that would make the blow a bit easier to bear! f) Maybe the future employers of 457 visas may have to stump up some more cash in order to get the people they want to come and work here, shows more commitment on their part and that they are not just rorting the system, trying to fill a space quickly.... Answers on a postcard please..... Pea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verystormy Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Does anyone know for sure that these costs will affect current holders of the 457? I'm getting conflicting reports about this. Given the budget speech says it will raise millions of dollars for the coming year from the 8600 children in WA schools who are the children of 457 holders, it seems clear it will apply to current holders and to be honest that is the point. It is to raise a few hundred million for the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest9824 Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 It will be policed I guess the same as it is in other states. Don't forget. This is new to WA but not to Oz. It has been the norm in a number of states for a long time. Also at significantly higher levels. Yes, a lot of PR holders go home. But, that is their choice - Oz give up being a penal colony some time ago. A 457 holder HAS to go home. A lot of Brit 457 holders seem to forget the nature of the visa they are on. The Canadians I have worked with are much more in tune with the fact it is a temp visa because they don't get access to healthcare. I think overall Oz treats it's temp residents very well. In many countries, you would have to pay full private education, full healthcare and many other things. No, there are no positive tax effects. The reality is, the real demand for 457 is going to be falling dramatically. I also suspect that there will a lot more tightening of the rules to come - most people don't seem to have grasped how negative the recent changes were. A lot seem to see the change from 28 days to 90 days without seeing the fact a lot of jobs now need to establish they have been trying to fill the role with a local for 120 days. I must admit VS I didnt know that to be the case in other parts of Australia, wondering why WA has left it this late to bring this in when the boom time was 5/6 years ago, money was no object to lots of 457s, now when things are getting more competitive, job losses etc, its even harder to find the dosh to pay for such things, seems very sly and disingeniuous, but then that doesnt surprise me. My other thought was, that if for some reason you pay your $4,000 for said kiddy to go to state school in Australia and then six months into the year, you get laid off and have to go back to the UK, do you get some of that 4,000 back or does it go into Barneys back pocket??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verystormy Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Yep. That is a bonus for Barney. The average cost for 457 education is I believe more like $7k and I think that is what we will see very soon in WA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddking2003 Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Doesnt seem a lot that can be done about it really. However, I am as interested as anyone to know how they will get us to cough up the cash for this little ringer. One big payment, monthly, weekly?? Also, I am wondering from what age we will be expected to start paying this for the kids? I certainley cant afford the money to apply for PR at the moment so it looks like we will have to fork out for a year or so. The cheeky monkeys, looks like I will definately be turning my hand to homebrew now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinetic Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 I feel for those already out there who haven't budgeted for this cost and those who are already on their way. If I hadn't turned down the job offer I had, I would now be faced with the dilemma of being $8,000 worse off or withdrawing. This has confirmed to me that I made the right decision. With the prospect that this fee will increase in future, there will probably be a rush of people pressing their employers for 186 or 187 visa support, so processing times may increase, albeit 457s must be well down. As has been said, it is a money raising exercise which at the same time deals with the perception that 457 visa holders are in some way less worthy. I wonder what statistics there are for how many 457 visa holders go on to be awarded PR? Although all the comments about it being a work permit are true, I suspect the people who move out there with children i.e. the ones affected by this fee, do intend to stay longer. Welcome to Perth - Not!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveakaginge Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 This is a link to the new changes.......... http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/changes-457-program.htm This one may also affect some on here. [h=2]Requiring mandatory registration, licensing or membership[/h]Before 1 July 2013 – For certain occupations, visa holders are required to obtain any mandatory registration, licence or membership in the state or territory where their position will be located. There was no restriction to a person being granted a Subclass 457 visa prior to obtaining the necessary registration, licence or membership. However, if a visa holder failed to obtain the mandatory registration, licence or membership, it was very difficult for the Department to take action. After 1 July 2013 - The condition will also be extended to require Subclass 457 visa holders to have sought to obtain within 28 days any mandatory registration, licence or membership for their occupation in the state or territory they are employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest9824 Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 I feel for those already out there who haven't budgeted for this cost and those who are already on their way. If I hadn't turned down the job offer I had, I would now be faced with the dilemma of being $8,000 worse off or withdrawing. This has confirmed to me that I made the right decision. With the prospect that this fee will increase in future, there will probably be a rush of people pressing their employers for 186 or 187 visa support, so processing times may increase, albeit 457s must be well down. As has been said, it is a money raising exercise which at the same time deals with the perception that 457 visa holders are in some way less worthy. I wonder what statistics there are for how many 457 visa holders go on to be awarded PR? Although all the comments about it being a work permit are true, I suspect the people who move out there with children i.e. the ones affected by this fee, do intend to stay longer. Welcome to Perth - Not!! I was actually wondering whether to ask that on the forum, and get a poll going...great minds ehhh! We are one of the lucky ones, PR was granted two years from start of 457 in 2008, and we are now citizens, so there are some lucky ones, but bearing in mind that was over 5 plus years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Gobsmacked, that you say that, truly My wife is 52, I'm 59, and this is our only option as a visa, we have looked and looked. She is being employed by a responsible, and very prominent employer, without a 457, they could not of employed her, and the post has been advertised in Australia for 9 months. As I said.......Gobsmacked, and that's me being restrained!!!! Yes mate but you will not get pr over 50 , so you will have limited or no options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinetic Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Yes mate but you will not get pr over 50 , so you will have limited or no options Not true, 4 years on a 457 can give PR for over 50. http://www.immi.gov.au/skills/skillselect/index/checklists/186-applicant-checklist.pdf Edited August 9, 2013 by Kinetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwen Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Not true, 4 years on a 457 can give PR for over 50. http://www.immi.gov.au/skills/skillselect/index/checklists/186-applicant-checklist.pdf It is possible but it's not easy. If you are applying after 4 years you have to have earned an average of $120k a year over that period to apply. For many 457 holders this simply isn't happening. I know of a few families that are unable to stay as they are over 50 and don't meet the salary requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Not true, 4 years on a 457 can give PR for over 50. http://www.immi.gov.au/skills/skillselect/index/checklists/186-applicant-checklist.pdf Only if you are a high income earner or priest Features This visa is for skilled workers from outside Australia or skilled temporary residents who live and work in Australia. It has three streams. The Temporary Residence Transition stream is for subclass 457 visa holders who have worked for two years and their employer wants to offer them a permanent position. The Direct Entry stream is for people who have never, or only briefly, worked in the Australian labour market. The Agreement stream is for people sponsored by an employer through a labour or regional migration agreement. Requirements People can apply for this visa if they: have been nominated by an approved Australian employer are less than 50 years of age meet the skills, qualifications and English language requirements. Apply now Edited August 9, 2013 by Goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannet9845 Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 That's a pleasant welcome with three kids in tow:( Hi there we been in perth 9 months it's been hard there no houses to rent once we got one, the cost has killed us, we can just about broken even each month my hubby earns good money and I work too, when I see u have to pay 4000k each child with 3 kids with all books and the extras and with my daughters ui fees we r looking at 30k plus...... So we sold every thing to come here for nothing, the kids have only just started to settle and my sons just started meds foe ADHD, ODD he's 7 and another in last year of school it's messed my kids right up as if. Had known this we would of not come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinetic Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Only if you are a high income earner or priest Features This visa is for skilled workers from outside Australia or skilled temporary residents who live and work in Australia. It has three streams. The Temporary Residence Transition stream is for subclass 457 visa holders who have worked for two years and their employer wants to offer them a permanent position. The Direct Entry stream is for people who have never, or only briefly, worked in the Australian labour market. The Agreement stream is for people sponsored by an employer through a labour or regional migration agreement. Requirements People can apply for this visa if they: have been nominated by an approved Australian employer are less than 50 years of age meet the skills, qualifications and English language requirements. Apply now [h=2]Age exemptions[/h]On 25 June 2013 exemptions for age were expanded with a view to creating greater flexibility to applicants who meet the specified criteria for exemption. Applicants must be less than 50 years of age or exempt. Exemptions are now available to applicants who are either: nominated as a senior academic by a university in Australia nominated as a scientist, researcher or technical specialist by an Australian government scientific agency, including State and Territory government scientific agencies nominated as a Minister of Religion by a religious institution applying through the Temporary Residence Transition stream, who have been working for their nominating employer as the holder of a subclass 457 visa for the last four years and whose earnings were at least equivalent to the Fair Work Australia High Income Threshold* for each year over that period nominated as a medical practitioner (ANZSCO Minor Group 253) applying through the Temporary Residence Transition stream: who have been working for their nominating employer as the holder of a subclass 457 visa for at least the four years immediately before applying and whose nominated position is located in regional Australia who have been working for their nominating employer as the holder of a Subclass 422 visa before becoming a holder of a Subclass 457 visa for the prescribed period of two years in the four years immediately before applying and whose nominated position is located in regional Australia. [*]for the Direct Entry Stream: New Zealand citizens and non-New Zealand members of the family unit of New Zealand citizens:who hold Subclass 444 or 461 visas who have been working for their nominating employer in their nominated occupation for at least two years (excluding any periods of unpaid leave) in the last three years immediately before making their visa application; or [*]nominated as a medical practitioner (ANZSCO Minor Group 253): who have been working for their nominating employer as the holder of a Subclass 422 visa for at least the four years immediately before applying and whose nominated position is located in regional Australia who have been working for their nominating employer as the holder of a Subclass 422 visa before becoming a holder of a Subclass 457 visa in the four years immediately before applying and whose nominated position is located in regional Australia. * The current Fair Work Australia High Income Threshold is AUD 129 300, as at 1 July 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinetic Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Hi there we been in perth 9 months it's been hard there no houses to rent once we got one, the cost has killed us, we can just about broken even each month my hubby earns good money and I work too, when I see u have to pay 4000k each child with 3 kids with all books and the extras and with my daughters ui fees we r looking at 30k plus...... So we sold every thing to come here for nothing, the kids have only just started to settle and my sons just started meds foe ADHD, ODD he's 7 and another in last year of school it's messed my kids right up as if. Had known this we would of not come Sorry to hear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinetic Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 It is possible but it's not easy. If you are applying after 4 years you have to have earned an average of $120k a year over that period to apply. For many 457 holders this simply isn't happening. I know of a few families that are unable to stay as they are over 50 and don't meet the salary requirements. Agree, not easy and wont be possible for some, but as you say it is possible for others. I made the point as the poster was saying his wife was 52 and if she is earning enough, MAY end up OK, if that's what they are hoping for. If not earning at that level, then you might as well forget it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraighttothePoint Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 So if you are over 50, and do not fit into the excemption categories, then if you come on a 457 is there no other route to PR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwen Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 So if you are over 50, and do not fit into the excemption categories, then if you come on a 457 is there no other route to PR? That's correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 So if you are over 50, and do not fit into the excemption categories, then if you come on a 457 is there no other route to PR? PR age limit was 45 but they upped it to 50 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraighttothePoint Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 QUOTE=Kinetic;69814]Agree, not easy and wont be possible for some, but as you say it is possible for others. I made the point as the poster was saying his wife was 52 and if she is earning enough, MAY end up OK, if that's what they are hoping for. If not earning at that level, then you might as well forget it... Or I suppose go in with your eyes open, accept the visa criteria, stay for a few years an then return to whence you came I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveakaginge Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Agree, not easy and wont be possible for some, but as you say it is possible for others. I made the point as the poster was saying his wife was 52 and if she is earning enough, MAY end up OK, if that's what they are hoping for. If not earning at that level, then you might as well forget it... She is earning $120 k, but alas, the threshold is $126 k now, so she will have to hope that she gets a good payrise . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossmoyne Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Are you exempt from the fee if you home school...might be an option!?! Good question and an educated guess would say yes as you haven't enrolled a child in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossmoyne Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 The reason this has happened is a cash grab. Simple as that. The WA state government is desperate for cash and this charge is normal in many other states. It's also a lot less than many of the states and so it's a fair bet, it will increase. By bet would be on it going up to $6k next year. Yes I agree it is a cash grab VS, but being a recently retired Dept of Education employee, I can tell you that the majority of 457 visa holders enrolling children in WA schools have children who are non-English speaking. The schools and the DOE then have to fund the extra ESL teachers and aides to support these students. I have worked in schools in WA where this has been happening for years, and I have been waiting for the school fee charge for 457 students to come in - it took a few years longer than I expected. There are schools in metro Perth who have classes of non-English speaking students of parents on 457 visas..... the money it costs to fund their teaching is coming out of the budget that should be supporting the education of Australian children. Whilst I agree there should be a fee for 457 students, I do not agree that 457 students who are English speaking should be paying this fee. Perhaps this is something that those on 457 visas who are English speaking, should be taking up with the elected member in their electorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossmoyne Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Back on to the original post.... Barney 'with his flintstone ideas' Rubble has done it again. Knee jerk cash grab! He will probably at some point back track, because he is a numpty! But anyway, back to the topic, I would love to know:- a) How will they police this once it is up and running, ie, will it be left to schools to try to ask for the money, or will they take it from 457s when they land at Perth airport???? Not an airport tax but a schoolgate tax maybe?? b) It seems unfair to penalise 457 applicants when it was quite ok for the government to rush visas through when the boom was happening and they didnt have enough well trained people here to fill the jobs that were being offered. Now lets just 'throw the 457 people to the lions' we dont need them anymore type of attitude! Maybe they think that if people dont like it from places like the UK then they will just get people on 457 visas from other countries to come and fill the spaces. c) Why should 457 visa holders have to pay for a place at a state school, when some and lets face it there are lots, decide to go home after a short time on PR visas, so therefore they have used the state system to their advantage and then not needed it anymore. d) Does this extra cash mean they will build more schools for the 457 visa holders kiddies to go to??? I think I know the answer to that. e) Will there be some tax implications that will benefit the 457 visa holders if they pay for their childrens education. I know that isnt the case with paying for private education, but maybe that would make the blow a bit easier to bear! f) Maybe the future employers of 457 visas may have to stump up some more cash in order to get the people they want to come and work here, shows more commitment on their part and that they are not just rorting the system, trying to fill a space quickly.... Answers on a postcard please..... Pea Pea I am sorry to disagree with you as you and I have such similar ideas, values, views on so many things. Firstly, Colin Barnett is not a numpty as you say. He has been good for this state as Premier and stood up to the federal government on many occasions to get WA a better deal. He has a vision for the state and is trying to do the best for WA following years of Labour mismanagement of finances and everything else you could think of. If you havent lived here for 15 - 20 years wouldn't know what I was talking about! In answer to your questions above: a) I guess that the Dept of Education will "police" this as they do so many other visa holders who pay similar fees to have their children educated in the state system. There is a section in Dept of Ed who deal with hundreds of students from families on other visas and who pay fees much higher than this. Children in private education will not pay the fee. I suggest that home schooling won't attract it either. b) Get what you are saying about wanting people in a hurry... just remember that other states have always charged this fee. 457 visa holders in WA have had it good for a long time on the education front. c) I am sure that the fee will be charged termly and I would hope that any unused fee would be reimbursed. d) Of course they will not build more schools for the 457 students. These students are already being educated in existing schools. But what you have to bear in mind is that the majority of these students are non-English speaking so the Dept of Ed is having to provide specialist teachers and aides to support these students. This is expensive and is something that has been going on for years at the expense of Western Australian students. However with the massive increase of students on 457 from non-English speaking backgrounds, the expense of covering this has become ridiculous. e) no idea about tax implications on this, but it is a good thought and perhaps one to be followed through. f) and yes maybe employers should be putting up this money if they really want 457 workers. All up though Pea I think what has happened is just another nail in the coffin of this visa class. Saw it coming a few years ago so not surprised. I feel greatly for 457 English speaking visa holders who are doing the right thing and in my view they should be exempt from this charge, but I have also seen the financial issues it has caused individual schools and the Dept of Education, so am not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossmoyne Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 I feel for those already out there who haven't budgeted for this cost and those who are already on their way. If I hadn't turned down the job offer I had, I would now be faced with the dilemma of being $8,000 worse off or withdrawing. This has confirmed to me that I made the right decision. With the prospect that this fee will increase in future, there will probably be a rush of people pressing their employers for 186 or 187 visa support, so processing times may increase, albeit 457s must be well down. As has been said, it is a money raising exercise which at the same time deals with the perception that 457 visa holders are in some way less worthy. I wonder what statistics there are for how many 457 visa holders go on to be awarded PR? Although all the comments about it being a work permit are true, I suspect the people who move out there with children i.e. the ones affected by this fee, do intend to stay longer. Welcome to Perth - Not!! Bottom line is 457 visa holders are temporary residents. So many 457's see their visa as a route to PR and it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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