The Great 457 Debate

[Guest guest9824]

The upshot is there are some, indeed many who have been burned badly by this visa, and some that are now and have been very successful with this visa, us inciuded, with kids in tow too,sorry to say Elfie. Doesnt take away the fact that many, don't get treated fairly on this visa and have a shocker of a time on it, including the lovely welsh guy with his five kids who came on the visa with a skill very much unique to him, only time find he was shafted for school fees for five kids, and he was helping employ and train young Aussies with new skills....go figure. I do sometimes think there can be as much risk coming to Australia on any visa without a job to come to as pointed out by SJT and some don't prepare for endless months out of work and end up going back to the uk bescause they run out of money, not much difference really in my mind. Dave I think Elfie has now got PR, how she has managed it in the whole scheme of things doesn't matter really does it?

Edited February 28, 2014 by guest9824

[ali]

We are here through my hubbys work came on a 457. He came out May 2012. Am not going through it all from the beginning my posts are here regarding 457. If you can do another way do it. So much insecurity etc etc. Personally think its not a good visa end of nothing will change my mind on that. For us it was a case of devil if we do devil if we dont. Opportunities do not come knocking often so you have to grab with both hands. Didnt matter to us if it failed or not it was an experience we would never have had. With what he does he will never be out of work as he is so multi skilled. Not the case "master of none". We can always go back have not sold up lock stock and barrel to come here and never will. It is an indivdual decison to sell up everything to come here on this 457 visa personally would never specially if I had children of school age, but that is just us being us really, there are risks you take and risks you do not. You do need a nest egg when you arrive as for the first 6 months all you do is pay out hand over fist. Those who say no well they are telling mistruths. Exceptionally luck my hubby was ENS 186 sponsored. The ball started rolling after he had been here 8mths January 13 due to him turning 50 in January 14. Our PR arrived November this year. So its rubbish you have to work for employer for 2 years etc etc and graudate to PR after 4 years etc etc. Think it depends on the employers policy to sponsor early also due to the value they put on the employee.

The first 12 months were very stressful unless you go through it you cannot imagine. The build up and then wham your here is it what you expected or not? For me it was a big shock. But you just roll your sleeves up and get on with it through the tears lonliness and isolation. Yes it can be a lonely place not every area do neighbours come knocking your door with a pie or an invite to a BBQ. Luckily things are now coming together but I still count the days to go back home but not as much as I use to. The original plan remains we will go back home but now it will be when we decide not the rules of the 457.

 

I thought that if you worked for any employer for 2 years then you don't have to do the skills assessment - I don't think I've seen it on the boards that you have to work for the employer for 2 years to be sponsored (unless that's written into the contract and between employer and employee), an employer can sponsor at any time.

 

I do agree, when you arrive it can be awfully confronting and isolating if you don't know anyone (we didn't) and you feel at a loss with the lack of familiarity.

[Daveakaginge]

Dave as stated read back on my posts regarding 457 I really cannot be bothered to go through our experience again. I will say the posts I make are from our experiences and perspectives - but it was pretty bad. The folks on this forum who have been here since I joined back in 2011 know the full story. I can assure you there is no need to point out the rules of 457 to am fully aware of them but thank you any way. You can obtain PR prior to the nomination ENS 186 being lodged before a 50th birthday we are living proof of it. Can send you a copy of our visa if you wish.

 

No need to send me your visa Elfie, and I wasn't knocking you, well maybe just a little ;-) My wife is 53, and I turned 60 a few weeks ago, so as I stated, pr is not an option, unless we go the 189 route. We researched this inside out and back to front, yet still we came, do you know why? because we love Australia, and were coming out every two years for a holiday, at some great expense, this way, we get a longer holiday, and shewhomustbeobeyed gets paid as well, so win win. We are under no illusions about this visa, but as I have said in response to you posts in the past regarding 457's, for some, this is the only route, as it was for us. Unlike you though, we are here because of our love for the country, not as a means of milking as much money as we can, and wishing a speedy return to the UK.

 

How's the dog by the way.

[OnOurWay]

Everyone has their own reasons for doing something. If someone moves to another country as a way to increase their personal earning potential that seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Presumably you are providing skills that cannot be provided locally and therefore are adding value to your chosen destination. It never fails to surprise me how defensive people get. How and why people get here is their matter. People do whatever works best for them. Moving to a new country because you love it and just want to be there is great, but I don't think it's any more or less noble than moving there because your skills are more valued.

Just my two pence being chucked in the pot.

[Druid]

We came on my 457 Nov 11, I was reluctant at first, pushed & pushed for the company to sponsor me on an ENS, but they insisted it would take too long & needed me sooner rather than later, I agreed on condition that as soon as I arrived they would apply for ENS Visa, they agreed, good job I did, the 457 visa changed 6 months later, but I already had my PR application in so it didn't affect me, the problems I encounter on my 457 was 1) wife struggled to get a job as most employers wouldn't accept the 457, 2) sons options were limited, as all TAFE's Colleges & Uni's saw him as an international student and wanted silly fees, 3) the company I worked for knew they had you by the balls & treated you like ****, including underpaying you as well, it wasn't until I arrived & found out the going rate was a lot higher, they took advantage of the fact that you wanted to be here, fortunately I threatened to leave & go back to the UK so they upped my rate, 9 months later I had PR with a 2 year visa obligation, I did the 2 years and quit, this company just continuously brings people over on 457's and uses & takes advantage of you, they are now advertising my position again, in a hope that they attract another sucker, I would hate to think of other companies doing this on the new 457 visa rules where you have to work for them for 2 years before applying for PR, another unforeseen problem was we couldn't buy property on a 457, at the end of the day the. 457 got us here, for that I am thankful.

[DyLeB]

No need to send me your visa Elfie, and I wasn't knocking you, well maybe just a little ;-) My wife is 53, and I turned 60 a few weeks ago, so as I stated, pr is not an option, unless we go the 189 route. We researched this inside out and back to front, yet still we came, do you know why? because we love Australia, and were coming out every two years for a holiday, at some great expense, this way, we get a longer holiday, and shewhomustbeobeyed gets paid as well, so win win. We are under no illusions about this visa, but as I have said in response to you posts in the past regarding 457's, for some, this is the only route, as it was for us. Unlike you though, we are here because of our love for the country, not as a means of milking as much money as we can, and wishing a speedy return to the UK.

 

How's the dog by the way.

The 189 visa is not an option for you for PR after 49.

 

The only way you can get PR is employer sponsored 186 if you meet the age exemption of working for your sponsor on a 457 for 4 years and your salary is over the high income threshold for each of the 4 years currently around $130k per year.

[DyLeB]

My 457 experience did not end well - difference I knew my sponsor as had worked with them on my WHV. Luckily I was on my own and just had one rucksack of stuff.

 

I was not doing the job I was sponsored for, not being paid the correct rate ( my hr rate was the salary divided by 50 hrs per week not 38 ), therefore he was not paying my super properly, was only getting 9% of 38hrs. Plus I was working 70-80 hrs a week 7 days - a week had no day off in 3 months. I was working I the outback so some of it was my choice. Also when I asked about PR that was out of the question.

 

I didn't want to stay so paid for my own flight home after giving him 1 weeks notice. I went to immigration and fair work before I left the country. Immigration said they would help me find another sponsor??

 

I refused to to go back to Australia without PR.

[Daveakaginge]

The 189 visa is not an option for you for PR after 49.

 

The only way you can get PR is employer sponsored 186 if you meet the age exemption of working for your sponsor on a 457 for 4 years and your salary is over the high income threshold for each of the 4 years currently around $130k per year.

 

My bad, I thought that was a 189, and the threshold was $128k?

[Daveakaginge]

We came on my 457 Nov 11, I was reluctant at first, pushed & pushed for the company to sponsor me on an ENS, but they insisted it would take too long & needed me sooner rather than later, I agreed on condition that as soon as I arrived they would apply for ENS Visa, they agreed, good job I did, the 457 visa changed 6 months later, but I already had my PR application in so it didn't affect me, the problems I encounter on my 457 was 1) wife struggled to get a job as most employers wouldn't accept the 457, 2) sons options were limited, as all TAFE's Colleges & Uni's saw him as an international student and wanted silly fees, 3) the company I worked for knew they had you by the balls & treated you like ****, including underpaying you as well, it wasn't until I arrived & found out the going rate was a lot higher, they took advantage of the fact that you wanted to be here, fortunately I threatened to leave & go back to the UK so they upped my rate, 9 months later I had PR with a 2 year visa obligation, I did the 2 years and quit, this company just continuously brings people over on 457's and uses & takes advantage of you, they are now advertising my position again, in a hope that they attract another sucker, I would hate to think of other companies doing this on the new 457 visa rules where you have to work for them for 2 years before applying for PR, another unforeseen problem was we couldn't buy property on a 457, at the end of the day the. 457 got us here, for that I am thankful.

 

Hi, two things I have pulled out of your post, that differ now. 1. You cannot be disadvantaged in pay if on a 457, in comparison to Australian co-workers, and 2. we have been in country 5 months now, and have bought our own place, you can as long as it is not used as a rental from foreign investment. So I feel for you, as I do Elfie, but as I said, get a good company, and things as a little bit rosier.

[Druid]

Hi, two things I have pulled out of your post, that differ now. 1. You cannot be disadvantaged in pay if on a 457, in comparison to Australian co-workers, and 2. we have been in country 5 months now, and have bought our own place, you can as long as it is not used as a rental from foreign investment. So I feel for you, as I do Elfie, but as I said, get a good company, and things as a little bit rosier.

 

The 457 visa stipulates a minimum salary, as long as the company equals or exceeds that salary it complies, as far as disparity in salary goes ( non unionised), my industry is based on licence coverage, the better the licence with individual rating the more pay, I arrived with a fantastic (Aussie) licence with a dozen or so useful rating to the company and was paid $70k, soon found out that some co workers had pretty average license cover with maybe 1 useful rating and was paid $100k, so where's the fairness in that, also you can't complain too loudly, if you do you could be told to leave, where will you be then! We went to talk to the bank about a mortgage, basically the bank wasn't interested unless we had a particularly fat deposit, which we didn't as we are struggling to sell our house in the UK, & we would have to get FIRB approval, which as you state is fine as long as it's your primary residence, we were pointed in the direction of some less scrupulous lenders but then the interest rate goes through the roof, we decided to wait, save up a deposit & hope our house sells

[portlaunay]

Everyone's experience is going to be different and everyone's opinion is entirely valid. I don't really understand why anyone would have a 'bad' experience on a 457 if they understood the risks and benefits. Surely something is only unfair if the terms and conditions are changed that adversely affect you after the contract has been agreed, such as the proposed introduction of school fees for 457 holders but it remains to be seen whether this will be enforceable or not.

 

I realise my positive experience will contrast the experience of others but being objective about it, if you understand the risks, arrive knowing that you could be made redundant and have to return from whence you came or find alternative employment, how can you complain when it 'goes wrong'? If your employer makes unfounded and unrealistic promises that they are unable to keep then surely that's not the fault of the visa? Perhaps there is a case for a review but the immigration department cannot forecast for individual businesses, it can only assess eligibility based upon the evidence a business provides and that's partly why the process is so quick I guess, it is trying to get the employee into the business asap to maintain it. If the market tumbles during the period of the employees 457 what is immigration expected to do, force the business to keep the employee even where there is no income? What about the other employees?

 

I suppose the bottom line is, if you are risk averse then just don't do it, find a more secure route to entry.

 

From a personal point of view, we are progressing through PR but if we're unsuccessful, so what? It will be a shame, we'll be heart broken but it's no one's fault, we just have to look at what will be the next chapter for us.

[elfie]

I thought that if you worked for any employer for 2 years then you don't have to do the skills assessment - I don't think I've seen it on the boards that you have to work for the employer for 2 years to be sponsored (unless that's written into the contract and between employer and employee), an employer can sponsor at any time.

 

I do agree, when you arrive it can be awfully confronting and isolating if you don't know anyone (we didn't) and you feel at a loss with the lack of familiarity.

 

Yes Ali he did skills assessment which consisted of sending off his verified qualifications filling in a form or 2 getting detailed statements of previous employers then sending it all off. Then recieved email confirmation that he had passed it.

[elfie]

The upshot is there are some, indeed many who have been burned badly by this visa, and some that are now and have been very successful with this visa, us inciuded, with kids in tow too,sorry to say Elfie. Doesnt take away the fact that many, don't get treated fairly on this visa and have a shocker of a time on it, including the lovely welsh guy with his five kids who came on the visa with a skill very much unique to him, only time find he was shafted for school fees for five kids, and he was helping employ and train young Aussies with new skills....go figure. I do sometimes think there can be as much risk coming to Australia on any visa without a job to come to as pointed out by SJT and some don't prepare for endless months out of work and end up going back to the uk bescause they run out of money, not much difference really in my mind. Dave I think Elfie has now got PR, how she has managed it in the whole scheme of things doesn't matter really does it?

 

 

The story of that Welsh family was a bad example of the visa a very bad example

[elfie]

No need to send me your visa Elfie, and I wasn't knocking you, well maybe just a little ;-) My wife is 53, and I turned 60 a few weeks ago, so as I stated, pr is not an option, unless we go the 189 route. We researched this inside out and back to front, yet still we came, do you know why? because we love Australia, and were coming out every two years for a holiday, at some great expense, this way, we get a longer holiday, and shewhomustbeobeyed gets paid as well, so win win. We are under no illusions about this visa, but as I have said in response to you posts in the past regarding 457's, for some, this is the only route, as it was for us. Unlike you though, we are here because of our love for the country, not as a means of milking as much money as we can, and wishing a speedy return to the UK.

 

How's the dog by the way.

 

Awww Dave here we go again As previous posts hubby could have gone to Africa - too dangerous - Saudi - I didnt want to go there - Canada - too cold - so here we are. Skills needed etc etc as John is very mutli skilled. As for "milking as much money" I can asssue you we both work hard for what we get more so my hubby - putting up with extreme heat flies flies more flies stink bugs long hours being away from home etc ect. Life on a mine site is not hearts and flowers its dam hard graft which is reflected in the wages. Same can be said for numerous others who go to another country to make money. Its not only Australia that is being raped that way same as the countries mentioned above. Certainly pay our way with taxes crippling tax on hubbys part private health putting money into the economy etc etc etc. But it comes at a cost. But then we can go back if we wish when we wish that is the only difference.

We could possible go back home sell up everything and come back to Ozzieland or stick with our orignal plan of semi retiring at 56 or 57 to a villa in Greece - by the way my Greek language skills are improving weekly. Or even stay here for the never never who knows what life will bring. One thing though my posts are from my perspective, experience and honest. I respect your views and your decision for being here I think you have children here and reasons for being a family. My life is totally different from yours and we are at opposite end of reasons for being here. Some may think we are callous and that is fine also dont particularly care. - after all this is not "real" is it. I truly hope you get what you want and stay here for the never never with your family. Same as everyone else on the 457 route I hope it works out, but if you can come another way do it theres more security for you.

 

Ps will let you know about the dog when we get her next Thursday - but im sure she will be fab - presently busy collecting dog items

Edited March 1, 2014 by elfie

[Give me a break!]

Elfie can I ask why you stay in SH if you don't like it?

[elfie]

Elfie can I ask why you stay in SH if you don't like it?

 

Because the area I live is quiet no screaming kids no wild parties no hooning not surrounded by neighbours close to the beach. Only and hour from airport. But number one is I feel safe that is the over all deciding factor - as I am on my own lots. I have a lovely rental a fantastic rental agent and a fantastic landlord. Basically very very lucky in that respect I count my blessings. Plus now Im getting a 4 legged friend so all is good.

 

But the main one is because I cannot be arsed to look for another rental plus if found one it would have to be a synchronised move as John is fifo. Its just too much of a hassel.

[Daveakaginge]

Awww Dave here we go again As previous posts hubby could have gone to Africa - too dangerous - Saudi - I didnt want to go there - Canada - too cold - so here we are. Skills needed etc etc as John is very mutli skilled. As for "milking as much money" I can asssue you we both work hard for what we get more so my hubby - putting up with extreme heat flies flies more flies stink bugs long hours being away from home etc ect. Life on a mine site is not hearts and flowers its dam hard graft which is reflected in the wages. Same can be said for numerous others who go to another country to make money. Its not only Australia that is being raped that way same as the countries mentioned above. Certainly pay our way with taxes crippling tax on hubbys part private health putting money into the economy etc etc etc. But it comes at a cost. But then we can go back if we wish when we wish that is the only difference.

We could possible go back home sell up everything and come back to Ozzieland or stick with our orignal plan of semi retiring at 56 or 57 to a villa in Greece - by the way my Greek language skills are improving weekly. Or even stay here for the never never who knows what life will bring. One thing though my posts are from my perspective, experience and honest. I respect your views and your decision for being here I think you have children here and reasons for being a family. My life is totally different from yours and we are at opposite end of reasons for being here. Some may think we are callous and that is fine also dont particularly care. - after all this is not "real" is it. I truly hope you get what you want and stay here for the never never with your family. Same as everyone else on the 457 route I hope it works out, but if you can come another way do it theres more security for you.

 

Ps will let you know about the dog when we get her next Thursday - but im sure she will be fab - presently busy collecting dog items

 

One child (not a child), my wife's (second timers), my three are back in the UK, as is my only Grandchild. We were lucky in a sense, that we came out on holiday a few times, and fell in love with the place. Oh, yeh, don't feel bad about chasing the money, I did 18 months in Jeddah, hated every day of it.