Is it really worth it?!! Advice needed please.

[Neewbie]

Hey anyone who's interested in reading.

I'm new to this and very anxious about an impending move 'down under'. Husband has been sponsored on a 457 visa (which is still with Immigration) within the freight industry, and has actually taken a lower role and pay cut because his dream is to live in Oz. I've always said I would support him but the figuars are just not adding up. I am a self employed Business Consultant, with numerous years recruitment experience and would look to find employment around our 7year old and his schooling.

We have "zero" support, no, no-one. The position will be based in Perth and I have done as muc re-con as possible 'on-line'! Suburbs we would be interested in are South Perth, Spearwood, Coogee etc, basically 30mins from Fremantle.

We are also looking at shipping our dog out.

Start date is Aug 1st, so fast approaching.

 

We have just sold our house here so would be looking to leave the UK owning, oweing zero to litereally start a new life in Oz. We would look to rent initially with the intention to buy ASAP (but we aren't sure and haven't been able to get any reliable advice on buying based on the visa being a 457).

 

My main questions are costs.......cost of everything.......living, shopping, schooling, medicare, renting?

Quality of life......is it really worth all the 'stress, excitment/anxiety' that I seem to be going through?

I now nothing is permanent, but this is a massive move and one that I need to seriously think through. I think my husband is wearing 'rose tinted glasses' and I suppose I am just after some reasurance from other's who have been in similar situations.

Any help, advice, guidence......will be much appreciates.

 

[verystormy]

well, you say nothing is permanent and that is certainly true of 457 visas. It is important you fully appreciate this is a temporary visa and has no automatic path to anything else, in fact they have just made it harder to obtain a permanent visa for 457 holders.

it is not a visa I recommend for families because of its issues.

I am hoping you are aware it is tied to the employer and should he lose his job for any reason, you would all have 60 days to leave the country. I certainly would not recommend buying a property. There are also other issues such as you will be charged 4000 per year for education and partners of 457 holders can have difficulty getting work - bear in mind WA is in recession at the moment.

As for is it worth it. That will vary a lot for different people and for different reasons. Oz is a very nice place, though it is still just another first world country with first world pluses and misuses. You still have to clean the toilet, buy the groceries and all the usual stuff

With costs, it depends on what you are used to. Though generally, if he has taken a pay cut, then unless you are moving from an expensive part of the south east England it will seem expensive.

[ali]

The 457 aside as we came on an independent PR visa - our quality of life is excellent here (we had a good one in the UK too), but as I've said in previous posts the one thing that we feel we've benefited from as a family is the amount of time we've spent together here in Aus and the quality of that was an improvement from the UK.  We have a feeling of contentment here that we'd not had previously and for us the move has been worth it.  My daughter (now 22) says that she was glad to have had her teenage years here in Aus.  

We arrived in WA, with two children 7, 11 a cat and about 7 suitcases.  Like you we'd sold our house and knew no-one in WA, so also had no support network or friends.  We haven't looked back and for us the move has been worth it.  We both took a step back in roles in our jobs and a pay initially, as sometimes you have to step back to move forwards and get your foot in a door.  Remember to be realistic, it takes time to establish friendships, that's what I missed in the early days - but now have a fantastic group of friends who have become our surrogate family.

I think you're right to be nervous - it's a massive move and the recent changes for 457's with some jobs not being able to progress to PR is a fraught one.  Having said that, if your hubby's job is one that can progress to PR, then it's something that lost of people have managed to do.

Have a look at coles and woolworths on line shopping - it will give you an idea of costs for food.

I'm not sure how much school fees are for the 457 visa holders, and there are additional school costs for books etc.,

 

[New Life Down Under]

Make sure your occupation is on Schedule 1, otherwise you will only ever be able to get 2 , 2 year visas with PR being extremely unlikely

[Neewbie]

Thank you for all your responses and time.

 

I have taken some of the information you have highlighted and thrown it back to our migration agent, especially regards to, which 'schedule' my husbands role falls under.

 

I have also asked his advice on some of the other areas relating to the schooling fees and 'partners' being able to find work.

Gut feeling is telling me to "pull-out" of the sell of our property!!

 

 

[Jen78]

Hi, we came out 5 months ago, house sold, leaving all our family and friends behind and started from scratch with two daughters 14 and 10. We are on PR though and don't know whether we'd have done it on a 457. Maybe though, for the life experience and you never know it could lead to PR.

We do feel that life is better for us here, mainly due to the weather and the extra time outdoors it brings. We lost my full time wage so income wise we are worse off but seem to be managing for now. We will rent for a couple of years and then see if we can afford to buy. I plan to look for a job next year when youngest starts high school.

We are south of the river in a 4x2 20 mins from Perth and about 30 mins from Fremantle and Coogee. Check realestate.com.au for rental and house prices, think the areas you've mentioned are quite expensive.

It has been worth it for us but only you can decide if its right for your family. You don't want to regret pulling out only to wish you'd done it 6 months down the line.

Best of luck

[Druid]

I dont want to  sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist, given Perths current "Recession" & all the visa changes, I wouldn't be moving over on a 457 any time soon, the freight / trucking industry is one of the hardest hit with the mining slow down, nothing needs moving north,  there are a lot of unemplyed people in Perth and the new McClown Govt is all for getting them jobs jobs before you, I work at Perth Airport, the FIFO fleet are only doing half the flying they were doing 3 years ago, some of the smaller companies have gone belly up or pulled the plug, even Qantas moved their turboprop fleet back east, I am even starting to worry about my job, sorry for being a realist, but I have seen a lot of 457 sponsored families leaving Perth with their tail between their legs, given the current climate 457 should really not be an option, I came over on a 457 6 years ago, during the boom, it was tough then, my wife couldnt get a job, my son struggled to get an apprenticeship, my daughter even decided to retrain, she has just completed a self study Cert IV, took her 3 years, and that was after doing a 5 Year Uni Degree in the UK, so now she has a massive student loan debt in the UK and a degree which is useless in Perth, maybe if she even moves to Melbourne or Sydney it will come in usefull, what ever you decide, good luck..............

[ali]

11 hours ago, Druid said:

I dont want to  sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist, given Perths current "Recession" & all the visa changes, I wouldn't be moving over on a 457 any time soon, the freight / trucking industry is one of the hardest hit with the mining slow down, nothing needs moving north,  there are a lot of unemplyed people in Perth and the new McClown Govt is all for getting them jobs jobs before you, I work at Perth Airport, the FIFO fleet are only doing half the flying they were doing 3 years ago, some of the smaller companies have gone belly up or pulled the plug, even Qantas moved their turboprop fleet back east, I am even starting to worry about my job, sorry for being a realist, but I have seen a lot of 457 sponsored families leaving Perth with their tail between their legs, given the current climate 457 should really not be an option, I came over on a 457 6 years ago, during the boom, it was tough then, my wife couldnt get a job, my son struggled to get an apprenticeship, my daughter even decided to retrain, she has just completed a self study Cert IV, took her 3 years, and that was after doing a 5 Year Uni Degree in the UK, so now she has a massive student loan debt in the UK and a degree which is useless in Perth, maybe if she even moves to Melbourne or Sydney it will come in usefull, what ever you decide, good luck..............

I don't think you need to apologise for being a realist - your post isn't negative or coming across that you're trying to put people off.  

[New Life Down Under]

On 6/14/2017 at 19:34, Neewbie said:

Thank you for all your responses and time.

 

I have taken some of the information you have highlighted and thrown it back to our migration agent, especially regards to, which 'schedule' my husbands role falls under.

 

I have also asked his advice on some of the other areas relating to the schooling fees and 'partners' being able to find work.

Gut feeling is telling me to "pull-out" of the sell of our property!!

 

 

Hi Neewbie, I agree with what Druid has written here, we are in a recession whether or not the Govt admit it! My husband was made redundant after 13 years and is tough out there as a jobseeker.  However, I really believe that life is not a dress rehearsal, we dont get a second chance at it! At the end of the day a house is really just a pile of bricks and mortar and you can always buy another one! My main concern is for your dog dragging him/her all the way to maybe go back again!!! Sadly their lives are not as long as ours.  If you have the opportunity come and give it a go, if you dont like it your 457 sponsor will have to pay for your return flights home anyway, it may be the best adventure ever!

[Neewbie]

All very realistic comments and I genuinely value all of them. My husband is holding onto faith that there is a way of "manipulating" PR somehow, and our agent has said there is always a way and everything to do with current gov't and 457 currently is all only in discussions. Only time will tell. 

Its all very confusing what to do for the right. I suppose best way is just to see it as an adventure over the next 2years and then review. 

Once again I really do appreciate everyone's comments and time.

 

 

[verystormy]

I don't know which agent you are using, but the comment that the current changes with 457's are only discussions is totally wrong. The changes are already being implemented, to the extent that the department are refunding people who have recently applied and are no longer eligible. 

As for manipulating PR somehow, sounds very worrisome as you either qualify or don't. 

What is his occupation and how old is he? 

[Rossmoyne]

My SIL is a Manager within the logistics industry in WA and he is telling me that work is slowing down majorly for his company and they are laying people off

On 15/06/2017 at 21:13, Druid said:

I dont want to  sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist, given Perths current "Recession" & all the visa changes, I wouldn't be moving over on a 457 any time soon, the freight / trucking industry is one of the hardest hit with the mining slow down, nothing needs moving north,  there are a lot of unemplyed people in Perth and the new McClown Govt is all for getting them jobs jobs before you, I work at Perth Airport, the FIFO fleet are only doing half the flying they were doing 3 years ago, some of the smaller companies have gone belly up or pulled the plug, even Qantas moved their turboprop fleet back east, I am even starting to worry about my job, sorry for being a realist, but I have seen a lot of 457 sponsored families leaving Perth with their tail between their legs, given the current climate 457 should really not be an option, I came over on a 457 6 years ago, during the boom, it was tough then, my wife couldnt get a job, my son struggled to get an apprenticeship, my daughter even decided to retrain, she has just completed a self study Cert IV, took her 3 years, and that was after doing a 5 Year Uni Degree in the UK, so now she has a massive student loan debt in the UK and a degree which is useless in Perth, maybe if she even moves to Melbourne or Sydney it will come in usefull, what ever you decide, good luck..............

It is good that you are telling it as it is.   I have been saying for the past 4 or 5 years that the mining industry was going south in WA and people should be wary of 457 visas, but I was told on this and other forums that I didn't know what I was talking about.   Seems I was right though.  

The economy in WA is not good, and if you are thinking of coming here on a 457 visa then you need to really think it through carefully and be prepared that the job you are coming to could end and you will have to go back to your country of origin within 60 days.  Jobs for Australians are getting harder to get and employers still employing are looking for employees with permanent residency.  If you have a unique talent or qualification that cannot be provided in Australia, you might be OK, but I would still think very carefully and negotiate your visa and contract with your future employer.

[Tulip]

There has been some excellent replies to your post.  The things I would say about this move is this; moving away from everything you know can be very exciting and/or very daunting and unless you are both up to putting lots of effort in I wouldn't entertain it. From your post it sounds like this what your husband wants and not you, it really has to be a joint adventure.  The visa type you have has been touched upon here and you really need to see this as a temporary move. If somehow some magic can be done down the line and you manage to stay then ok but right now you have to see it for what it is.  You say you've sold up to start a new life in Oz. You don't have a visa for a new life in Oz, only a temporary stay.  On that basis you need to be happy to take yourself, child and dog to the other side of the world and back again over a period of a few years. The cost of this move, including education (not sure if you get Medicare on this visa) is huge. Some people have lots of money and those costs aren't important, I have no idea whether they are to you.  Your husband may well have rose tinted glasses on and many do but what stood out to me is it appears it's what he wants but what about what you want? Employment is bad in WA and the reality is he will be off doing his new job and you will be at home alone although hopefully you will get work eventually. It is harder on that visa as many employers want someone who's likely to stay.  The final thing I would mention and it's never a nice thing to say but be aware of The Hague convention.  I'm sure it would never happen although many have thought that but if you were all out there and you wanted to return to the uk but your husband didn't then your child would be stuck there unless your husband agreed to them returning back to the uk. You would not be allowed to take your child back to the uk without his permission. Horrible to mention but there's people out there that this has happened to and they'd have been grateful for knowledge prior to going I'm sure. I wish you luck in whatever you chose.

[Neewbie]

Some fab comments, thank you.

A few answers 'Verystormy', hubby is 39 and is a specialist UK/International BDM (Business Development Manager), I cannot dumb down how good he is at what he does and his global contacts are what makes him so specialist. However, he has a fantastic role here with a Global company and would be taking a step back and a pay cut.

It is definitely my husbands dream and was mine prior to it actually becoming 'very real'. It's one thing an idea being a "pipe dream", to it becoming a reality. And now I am going through all the 'if's, but's, maybe's.... and realistic facts! Which basically are -

1)  We only have a temporary visa of 2years, 4years at most.

2) No need to "sugar coat" but neither of us have qualifications or skills that would provide us with path to PR.

3) We will have more outgoings and less income.

4) Our savings will be gone paying for dog, shipping, airfare 1way....let alone money aside for our return trip.

5) Perth is in a recession.

6) We actually live a comfortable life here in the UK and have both got opportunities within our careers to enable us to holiday in Oz on a yearly basis.

Thank you Tulip as well for your comments. Just to add here, hubby and I are very personable but also very homely and 'hands-up' quite anti social, if I'm being very honest. I'm 37 and have the same friends since primary school. Don't get me wrong, I love my friends but I don't have to be anything but "me". I don't think I we would have a problem making new "acquaintances", and we would make the effort but neither of us are the most sociable! (Gosh we sound like a proper pair.....We are lovely honestly , I suppose we are just very selective as to who we would socialise with).

I don't want to be negative at all and feel like I probably am, but I can only go on the facts and be as open and honest as I possibly can to request the honest advice back.

Can anyone give me any positives based on their move or life now in Perth?

[New Life Down Under]

OK Neewbie, you are clearly having a dilemma about should I stay or should I go (as THE CLASH would say!)

As a Migration Agent on here i must say that if your occupation is on the new STSOL you will only have 2 x 2 years on that visa.   Having said that for many people who really want to stay they often find a way, either by retraining ie getting a student visa or moving to remote areas.

My husband is a specialist BDM/WA Territory Manager and was made redundant in February! Your husband is very lucky to be sponsored in that kind of role as there are lots of excellent sales managers out there who are looking for work in WA. 

Many people move here who have never even set foot on Australian soil and realise that the dream isnt quite what they thought it was.  Others step foot off the plane, thrive here and never leave.  You are both still under 40 and I really believe in following dreams and giving things a go. However you and your husband sound like a couple who seem fairly contented with a comfortable life style, enjoy each others company and seem to have a close group of friends nearby.  I am a little surprised that you even started this "quest!"

You ask for positives, well I a sure that I speak for many on here and say that we live in a beautiful, clean, safe city with a fantastic climate and amazing ocean.  Every day when I walk my dog at the foreshore I think how lucky I am. My teenage daughters are at the local State High School and are hopefully going to one of our excellent universities. I thought a photo of a beautiful Perth sunset (not enhanced at all!) may let you see what we have here.  However, it is not for everyone and as an agent I often see troubled marriages, discontentment, and homesickness......

 

[verystormy]

I will throw in a couple of other things you need to think about.

You say he is taking a pay cut, now unless you are living in the South East of the UK, you are likely to find things significantly more expensive, particularly housing. For example, even with the downturn in WA, rent on an average house will be about $420 a week.

The other one to consider is your child's education on returning. If you stayed 4 years, he would be year 11 on returning. Not an ideal time, as in the UK he would be mid way through A levels, except that Australia don't do A levels. Also, he needs to be resident in the UK for three years prior to starting university or be treated as an international student.

[Tulip]

I think she said the child was 7 verystormy so they would only be 11 years old. Still a very good point though as they will be settled with friends/clubs etc and will have to up sticks. That said, whilst I'd never move a child during important exams I do in general think if the parents want to move then the children go too and that's how it goes. 

[Collie]

Some excellant and accurate posts on here.

In short - Perth is doing it tough economically at the moment but your partner has a gig to come to which is great.

Silver lining is that it is very much a renters market so lots of places available to rent.  I rent a 3 bed house with a super garden (got a 3 year old kid) in Mount Hawthorn (nice area about 4km north of CBD) for $450pw.  check out domain.com.au to get an idea of properties.  A general rule of thumb is the closer to the coast the nicer the area.

Perth is expensive for leisure items (Drinks, meals out etc) and you are pretty much jumping on a plane for 4-5 hours to visit the other main cities in Aus.

Great lifestyle, super beaches and climate,  It's been 22/23 and sunny most days of June so far but drops down at night, this is winter.

I think you need to treat this as a 2 year adventure.  Don't burn your bridges completely in the UK.  Can you rent out your place in the UK? (although it may be a good time to sell as IMO there is a recession en route). 

Come with the attitude that you are going to embrace it as an experience but will be going back in 2 years.  If you love it and can find a way to stay in 2 years cross that bridge then.

[Neewbie]

So, a little update......

We are STILL waiting on our visa's!

 Hubby's start date for position in Perth has passed and our only hope is that his sponsor will hold the position for as long as required, which they've said they would do.

 

[New Life Down Under]

Hi Neewbie, if it is a 457 visa,  is it one of the occupations that have been removed of affected by a caveat? Maybe they are waiting for further information?

[JaseandAnne]

Hi Newbie, Ive read this thread and everyone makes valid and realistic points. Perth isn't great economically, times is hard. But I haven't had trouble getting jobs and neither has my wife. We took pay cuts and change of occupations to come here( I had PR for a previous trade), we too aren't particularly sociable but mainly because we've got small kids and the wife won't leave them with people they don't know  and as we don't have anyone that we know well enough we don't go out with out them! lol! 

You've sold your house so you may as well use the money from it and treat it as an adventure, whether you have to go back after a 2 or 4 years is neither here nor there if you didn't come both of you would be wondering "what if". Its better to have tried something and not liked it than to have not tried it at all.

I disgree with the statement about not buying a house because you are on temporary visa( unless you have trouble getting a mortgage t being on a 457), we have PR but having only been here 17 months we arent 100% sure we are going to stay, we miss friends and family and some aspects of the UK but we, like you, sold our house to come here and have spanked most of the money so what better way to recover it than buying a house here incase you need to go back in two or four years time? This was our thought, our savings were fast running out so we used what was left for a deposit. The housing market is rock bottom here at the moment so there are some bargains to be had. We bought renovator south of the river  so we could add value and if the market hadnt pickjed up and we decided to go back we'd have a go at renting it out. If you want to save yourself money look slightly further out for rents, we currently Rent a 4 x 2 in a great area 40 mins from city for $330 a week. We are currently paying mortgage and rent!! Couldn't have don't that in the UK!! 

My post may sound a little like we are planning to go back, not at all, I love it here, I miss people, some of the Aussie ways annoy me but on the whole as a family we are better off here because we have more time to spend with each other. Don't come thinking its paradise and youll be alright!

Jase

[Collie]

On 8/13/2017 at 01:28, JaseandAnne said:

The housing market is rock bottom here at the moment so there are some bargains to be had.

Hey Jase,

That is a matter of opinion, rock bottom compared to what, 2012?  Personally, I think there is another 12 months of falling prices in Perth, people are still leaving for the Eastern states for work, Employment market is still challenging, there is excess supply of rentals, rents and prices are still dropping.  Spoke to a RE agent in Mount Lawley recently and he is not seeing any levelling off yet.

Additionally, there are new tax rules for property owners on temporary visas.

If they are coming for 2 or 4 years, best bet is to rent (at very competitive rents) until they know whether they can get PR and want to stay.  If there is a change in the OP's job circumstances and they need to leave within 60 days, a property isn't exactly an easy asset to liquidate.

Glad, it is working out for you.

 

[Rossmoyne]

I agree with Collie's comments above.   Just my situation, but I have been seriously thinking about downsizing recently and I am gobsmacked at the low price my house is worth compared to this time last year.   Talking to friends in a similar situation (we are all retired with fully owned property and want to release some capital so looking at selling family 4 x 2 to buy a small unit...)  none of us will make any money after selling in this market and buying again..... so we are all sitting tight until things change.   Which is more or less what everyone else is doing I guess.