Jony001 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 yes i have looked into frozen and if people where happy with this i would go with frozen...just seeing what people say..i will be happy to import the frozen fish etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verystormy Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 It has to have a warming bay. One of the deficiencies with Oz fish and chips is that it is cooked to order. Normally a good idea for food, but not for fish and chips as the oil hasn't had chance to drip off and the fish is cooked to long in the fryer rather than a short spell of high heat in the fryer then a little while waiting in the warmer as the latent heat finishes cooking. A good batter is essential. I think I am one who would go for the frozen cod rather than local fish. Particularly as most fish and chip shops, even in the UK use frozen as it is too hard to get a delivery every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jony001 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 thanks for that..i would import all equipment so a warming bay would be included..another one for frozen fuish..thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraighttothePoint Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I'd suggest the British connection is the peeled potatoes. Yeah that was all could really see the difference to be but others seem to feel that without cod and haddoack it is not a British chippy. Jony001 clarifed that he was going to import equipmet, oils / fats and sauces as well so that is good because that would mean that the product is perhaps produced and supported differently and therefore there is a marketing opportunity and USP (unique selling point) as well. On the business side, and I am sure Jony001 has considered this, the location as well as the quality of the product would be key if it is to be solely aimed at Brits. For example Butler, which is huge in Brit numbers, already has a place called "the Chippy" which is how we were always brought up to call them and Joondalup north, another Brit laden suburb, has a fish and chips shop. Funnily enough that one is owned by a NZ guy called Mike. He must be doing well because he used to go back to NZ every year for the whole of January, don't know if he still does or not, but if he is then sales of Aussie style fish and chips must be good!! It also shows you that folk like what is on offer in that area currently I suppose. I am guessing therefore that these two areas looked covered. There appears to several suburbs going British at the moment though, e.g. Secret Harbour, Bladivis and Yanchep, and so may be a look into those may be worthwhile. If the shop is to be aimed at Brits then setting up in of those areas would be good however like any business if the product did not appeal then they will not shop there. The risk would be aiming it at a limited buyer group, who in turn may not use it, and that in turn would leave an owner with reduced custom. Not saying that the product will be poor just saying that this is a business risk. When we opened our business here we aimed at the whole market, and not at a limited number of people, to ensure we gave ourselves the best chance of survival. Advertising to everyone we were British and what we offered was different to that currently on offer did not appeal to us. Thankfully that approach worked and we are still open for business today unlike many British type "shops" and "services" that I have seen start and close in the last 10 years. Perth has a strange way of doing business and going with flow certainly helps. Maybe having a great product offers the opportunity of aiming it at a wider market and not a lesser one? Not sure if Jony001 has considered that angle? It seems in this case that you could offer high quality fish and chips, produced slightly differently, and as long as they are good people will buy and perhaps buy in larger volumes. I apreciate that the risk is in the way that the product will be produced if you go wider market, due to people's taste and what they are used to, but if you go for a narrower market much more may need to fall into place, (excuse the pun), for it to succeed. Peoples taste with this will vary greatly and even with a "British shop" within that demograpgh some will like what is produced and some will not so the risk is there already. I suppose the bottom line is the business to be as profitable as it possibly can be or is it be set up as a service? Marketing to a whole suburb, with a great set of products, as against providing something for may be one in three or two in four households in a suburb could be viewed by a lot of business people as a bigger risk than needed. Appreciate that the unique thing here is selling British stuff to British people, and that the risk is probably self evident to business onwers, but it could be a lot of folk reading this thread may consider great ideas equal great business success and of course the reality is not that. Edited December 9, 2012 by StraighttothePoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 If you're going to import everything (oils, fish, etc.,) is this going to make the end product more expensive in comparison to the competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jony001 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 hi didnt mean to come across as rude..i didnt see faces as they didnt come up on my phone..any way i wanted to see what people wanted in regarding the fish as i prefer to use fresh fish,which would obviously be from australia as i thought people would not want frozen fish,but by the looks of it they dont mind,as long as its cooked properly..so im thinking for it to be a british fish and chip shop everything has got to come from uk..including frozen fish..thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jony001 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 If you're going to import everything (oils, fish, etc.,) is this going to make the end product more expensive in comparison to the competition? not really,depends on the competition tho??if you are selling a good product and can justify the prices it shouldnt matter...what is the average price for decent fish and chips?what would you pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Our local shop (and we have no complaints) is $8 for fish and chips (we always have mushy peas and curry sauce in the pantry). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jony001 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 that Our local shop (and we have no complaints) is $8 for fish and chips (we always have mushy peas and curry sauce in the pantry). thats a good price..any ideas what the fish is??just need to know these things as i need to be competetive with pricing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraighttothePoint Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) that thats a good price..any ideas what the fish is??just need to know these things as i need to be competetive with pricing.. A lot of the fish and chips sold here at that price are because they use gummy shark and that is flaked and a bit cheaper to get wholesale or Hoki again a cheap fish. (See Wikipedia - "Gummy shark meat is often marketed as "flake". Their boneless fillets have made them particularly popular within the fish and chip industry throughout Australia.") Ali can no doubt confirm but $8 is a cheapish purchase and suspect that it may be gummy or hoki, not sure though? Again not sure how it works in NZ / across all UK but here in Perth in a lot of fish and chip shops offer a menu of fish, i.e. top drawer to cheapest, and so you as a customer you can spend what you like. (Ali obviously either likes the $8 option or his chippy does not offer a range of fish ) Again coming back to my point above about selling to a narrow market the British may only want choice of cod or haddock? Possible and therefore you again knock out a large number of potential customers who want other types of fish if your marketing is bias towards a minority group. I think what I am getting at is good idea re the British type fish and chips but is it really going to be that viable for you? I totally agree that a good, quality product dictates price and that many will pay a premium for quality. However with costs spiralling here in Perth, and many folk in the suburbs struuggling apparently, will they pay a premium to get there once a week or twice a week feed? Not sure. http://www.allaboardseafoods.com.au/menu.html Anyway here is a sample menu from a Perth shop which hopefully helps. I am sure that once you have undertaken further market reserach in Perth and developed a fully costed business plan then you will be able to develop a costed menu based on one angle of sales. Changing it to suit a wider market then becomes an option if the figures do not show a good business model by just going "British". Like anything I suppose the devil is in the detail. Edited December 9, 2012 by StraighttothePoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest1337 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I would pay good money for good fish & chips quite happily! Even a little extra for 5 star product! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nee Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 This is well overdue!!!! Open anywhere in Perth and I will travel...... In desperate need of British chips/gravy/peas/curry this is making me hungry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausblu Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 that thats a good price..any ideas what the fish is??just need to know these things as i need to be competetive with pricing.. The Chip shop in Carramah sell pommie packs which is suppose to be cod and chips , the fish is good but the chips you hardly get any and are frozen crap ,The fish is cooked and put on shelf on there sides for a few minutes to allow the fat to drip out, If you did them the UK way peel your own im sure ud make a killing:biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 A lot of the fish and chips sold here at that price are because they use gummy shark and that is flaked and a bit cheaper to get wholesale or Hoki again a cheap fish. (See Wikipedia - "Gummy shark meat is often marketed as "flake". Their boneless fillets have made them particularly popular within the fish and chip industry throughout Australia.") Ali can no doubt confirm but $8 is a cheapish purchase and suspect that it may be gummy or hoki, not sure though? Again not sure how it works in NZ / across all UK but here in Perth in a lot of fish and chip shops offer a menu of fish, i.e. top drawer to cheapest, and so you as a customer you can spend what you like. (Ali obviously either likes the $8 option or his chippy does not offer a range of fish ) Again coming back to my point above about selling to a narrow market the British may only want choice of cod or haddock? Possible and therefore you again knock out a large number of potential customers who want other types of fish if your marketing is bias towards a minority group. I think what I am getting at is good idea re the British type fish and chips but is it really going to be that viable for you? I totally agree that a good, quality product dictates price and that many will pay a premium for quality. However with costs spiralling here in Perth, and many folk in the suburbs struuggling apparently, will they pay a premium to get there once a week or twice a week feed? Not sure. http://www.allaboardseafoods.com.au/menu.html Anyway here is a sample menu from a Perth shop which hopefully helps. I am sure that once you have undertaken further market reserach in Perth and developed a fully costed business plan then you will be able to develop a costed menu based on one angle of sales. Changing it to suit a wider market then becomes an option if the figures do not show a good business model by just going "British". Like anything I suppose the devil is in the detail. I'm not sure what fish it is, but they do offer other fish, but the kids are happy with that one and the batter is really light and not greasy ... it's not something they have very often and is usually one of those meals when we don't fancy cooking ... I think we've only had fish and chips once in the last 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verystormy Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 We would happily pay significantly more for a good product. Yesterday we went to sharky's in mandurah which apparently just came second in the competition for WA's best fish and chips. The fish was pretty good. Not as much flavor as cod, but the batter was very good. The side salad, nice and well dressed. But the chips. Yet again bloody frozen crap. Not cheap either at $18 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfie Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 ninos in mandruah is not bad for fish and chips fish was lovely chips frozen but all in all 7 out of 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwen Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 We would happily pay significantly more for a good product. Yesterday we went to sharky's in mandurah which apparently just came second in the competition for WA's best fish and chips. The fish was pretty good. Not as much flavor as cod, but the batter was very good. The side salad, nice and well dressed. But the chips. Yet again bloody frozen crap. Not cheap either at $18 each. The chips are my bugbear. I don't mind the fish to be honest. Get a place that has decent snapper or whiting and for me it can be on a par with haddock, cant stand cod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicki Maskelyne Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I remember watching one of the Wanted Down Under's a few years ago and there is a couple in Queensland that came over and sell British Fish and Chips, has been a huge success as well. They imported all the fryers etc from the UK, they did say why they did that apparently they are different to the Oz style things whether that's changed over the years who knows. Might be worth trying to find out... in fact a quick google search threw this up if it's any help. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/8904945/They-love-our-fish-and-chips-down-under.html Certainly worked out really really well for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossmoyne Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Well Jonny001 - I have to hand it to you, you have certainly put a lot of research and thought into this. I hope it works out for you - let us know when you are up and running and I will certainly come along to try them out. I probably only have fish and chips once or twice a year, and always up for trying something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jony001 Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Well Jonny001 - I have to hand it to you, you have certainly put a lot of research and thought into this. I hope it works out for you - let us know when you are up and running and I will certainly come along to try them out. I probably only have fish and chips once or twice a year, and always up for trying something new. hi ..yes have been thinking and researching for about 6 months,just casual tho..it certainly helped me finding this web site.alot of positive feed back which is good.i could do with some negative feedback as well just to balance things up..if any one has any? Even menu ideas would be good thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraighttothePoint Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 hi ..yes have been thinking and researching for about 6 months,just casual tho..it certainly helped me finding this web site.alot of positive feed back which is good.i could do with some negative feedback as well just to balance things up..if any one has any?Even menu ideas would be good thanks Hopefully as somebody who has been involved in setting up a small, relatively successful, business in Perth my comments have been balanced. I am reading this as a business venture and it really does not matter what you are selling because the set up / running processes are much the same for any small business. I have no idea if you have lived in Perth / tried setting up a new business here before but if not then that in itself has it challenges and could be for many classed as a negative. The reason being is it can result in a long lead in time and may be much longer than you are used to, finding a suitable premises and getting a change of use in place if required is very slow, if you have H&S and/or specific business licences you need then that is a very tedious process, signage depending on which suburb you locate to can be painful, importing equipment can take ages due to location and customs and so on. In addition if you try and get a business loan up front rather than use cash, no idea what you are thinking here, but that may prove problematic as well if you are an incomer and cannot demonstrate previous earnings in Australia. So the negative here could be your expectations in terms of how long you think it will take to set up from scratch versus the actual time it could take WA time. Whatever time you think double and/or triple it for set up and you will be fine. Also I like Ausblu's comment about a fish and chip shop selling a "Pommie Pack". In my posts I have tried to balance it by asking if you target the market specically to a British ex pat community will that really give you the volume of ongoing sales you will need to be successful. Will it put other's off and stop them coming into the shop? Will they see it as a business that says "yeah I know you have fish and chips here but they are rotten and mine are better"? I suspect that the locals will not like that approach even if you do not mean to portray it. (We all know it is about taste, and what you are used to and not what is better, but image can be damaging if not piched correctly.) Bearing in mind you have said that you are to invest heavily and so therefore I am assuming if that is the case you would want a quick return on expenditure and an ongoing, high volume customer base. The negative for me has to be if you narrow your market. To counter that could you consider a middle path and buy over an existing fish and chip shop and offer similar to what Ausblu has identified, "A Pommie Pack" and then that way you target everyone rather than less. It also takes away the long, slow process of setting up from scratch and all that entails. you can also just adapt a an existing menu that has been tried and tested. Could you re-brand the new shop and market to all in the suburb using styles that both communities like? No idea if that is possible but it would counter the narrow market approach. Other risks (negatives) I suppose are if you import frozen fish / fats / oils for a UK customer base how long does that take and would it be reliable, staff costs are high here in WA and that will relate to price and possibly competition if you choose the wrong suburb. All in all business has it risks and none of my posts are meant to put you off just to get you thinking so you can take a "casual idea" further because it does sound as though it may work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adam InIluka Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Nether mind the fish & chips, where can I buy steak & kidney puddings? blumming 'eck, pudding, chips, peas & gravy with buttered muffin (bread roll to some, barmcakes to others) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Nether mind the fish & chips, where can I buy steak & kidney puddings? blumming 'eck, pudding, chips, peas & gravy with buttered muffin (bread roll to some, barmcakes to others) Lol hubby resorted to making his own steak pudding - but they take hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verystormy Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think your business comments are very good, but I disagree with some of the analysis. I certainly can not see how a pommy pack can work, given it is essentially everything about the Oz fish and chips that is regarded as poor. For example, wouldmit be practical to have frozen chips and hand cut / cooked fresh at the same time. I don't think so. I also think there are more than enough business in WA that specialize in UK custom and have done so for many years to prove it can work. Look at the several British sweet shops that are about. For what it's worth, I also think a British butchers would work if the import of meat was possible as I have, after nearly 5 years, come to the conclusion that Oz meat is inferior to say the least and that the butchers are poor. Hopefully as somebody who has been involved in setting up a small, relatively successful, business in Perth my comments have been balanced. I am reading this as a business venture and it really does not matter what you are selling because the set up / running processes are much the same for any small business. I have no idea if you have lived in Perth / tried setting up a new business here before but if not then that in itself has it challenges and could be for many classed as a negative. The reason being is it can result in a long lead in time and may be much longer than you are used to, finding a suitable premises and getting a change of use in place if required is very slow, if you have H&S and/or specific business licences you need then that is a very tedious process, signage depending on which suburb you locate to can be painful, importing equipment can take ages due to location and customs and so on. In addition if you try and get a business loan up front rather than use cash, no idea what you are thinking here, but that may prove problematic as well if you are an incomer and cannot demonstrate previous earnings in Australia. So the negative here could be your expectations in terms of how long you think it will take to set up from scratch versus the actual time it could take WA time. Whatever time you think double and/or triple it for set up and you will be fine. Also I like Ausblu's comment about a fish and chip shop selling a "Pommie Pack". In my posts I have tried to balance it by asking if you target the market specically to a British ex pat community will that really give you the volume of ongoing sales you will need to be successful. Will it put other's off and stop them coming into the shop? Will they see it as a business that says "yeah I know you have fish and chips here but they are rotten and mine are better"? I suspect that the locals will not like that approach even if you do not mean to portray it. (We all know it is about taste, and what you are used to and not what is better, but image can be damaging if not piched correctly.) Bearing in mind you have said that you are to invest heavily and so therefore I am assuming if that is the case you would want a quick return on expenditure and an ongoing, high volume customer base. The negative for me has to be if you narrow your market. To counter that could you consider a middle path and buy over an existing fish and chip shop and offer similar to what Ausblu has identified, "A Pommie Pack" and then that way you target everyone rather than less. It also takes away the long, slow process of setting up from scratch and all that entails. you can also just adapt a an existing menu that has been tried and tested. Could you re-brand the new shop and market to all in the suburb using styles that both communities like? No idea if that is possible but it would counter the narrow market approach. Other risks (negatives) I suppose are if you import frozen fish / fats / oils for a UK customer base how long does that take and would it be reliable, staff costs are high here in WA and that will relate to price and possibly competition if you choose the wrong suburb. All in all business has it risks and none of my posts are meant to put you off just to get you thinking so you can take a "casual idea" further because it does sound as though it may work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraighttothePoint Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think your business comments are very good, but I disagree with some of the analysis. I certainly can not see how a pommy pack can work, given it is essentially everything about the Oz fish and chips that is regarded as poor. For example, wouldmit be practical to have frozen chips and hand cut / cooked fresh at the same time. I don't think so. I tend to agree that aiming it at both markets would be tricky and this could be a flawed business aproach however if it could work I would see something like the Pommie Pack complimenting the business and not something that would come across as a blatant attack on Aussie style f and c's. Like you say though probably a little too difficult to set up 100% correctly and it would be a bit of a fudge. I also think there are more than enough business in WA that specialize in UK custom and have done so for many years to prove it can work. Look at the several British sweet shops that are about. It could come down to on how much proifit is required from the business as to what style of f and c shop is set up. Best of British shops / Ye Old English Sweet Shops - do they really make a decent bottom line profit or are they more simply life style business's? How many non-Brits go into them regularly? Do they widen the market by having the opportunity for online sales? It is something that husband and wife teams can set up and run because they have savings and need a job when they get here? If the profitability is poor and the market narrow then it is simply a business risk but if it is for something to get by on then nothing wrong with that as a business aim though. One key thing in all this is we have no idea what is required from this venture, i.e. is it to be a lifestyle business, must it have the opportunity to employ other family members or is it just a pure bottom line profit venture? Anyway the good thing is that opinion helps, all of it good, bad and indifferent, but the real acid test will be when Jony001 matches his business aims against solid research, figures and logic within the set up process and that should give him enough of an outcome to let him decide what to do. As for butchers. Blooming heck Stormy their f and c's are regarded as poor and now their meat and butchering is inferior? Please tell me you like some things on offer here otherwise we may all be getting the feeling that you are whinging a bit LOL, OMG and all that other techo speak stuff to make sure you are giggling at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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